robsgp : stoopid brake questions

stoopid brake questions
Post by robsgp on Nov 19, 2006, 8:14pm

I finally got my shoes back from relining. I put everythng together and bled the back brakes no problem. Both the fronts I get just a trickle of fluid and the shoes don't seem to be contacting the drum. I used the vette mc and have refilled both resevoirs.

Should I have bled one back and one front first, like is the pressure in back keeping me from sending ample fluid to the front?

What are the bleeder fittings on the side of the mc for?

Should I try disconnecting the front brake hoses to make sure the fluid is getting that far?

Thanks,
Rob

Re: stoopid brake questions
Post by tacomainoh on Nov 19, 2006, 8:18pm

Try rebleeding the brakes and see if that fixes it.

Did you bleed the M/C first????

Re: stoopid brake questions
Post by barrman on Nov 19, 2006, 8:35pm

Rob,
With no pedal pressure applied, you will only get a small trickle out of the wheel cylinder bleeders.

If you bled the mc and have a firm pedal, you should have fluid shooting a few feet if you open any of the wheel cylinder bleeders with someone pushing on the pedal.

No pedal pressure could be the shoes not adjusted out, air in the lines or air in the mc. Start at the mc, bleed it. Then go to the rear right. You have about 5 feet of air in the lines because you converted the rear to a new line. Bleed all the air out. Make sure you have your new shoes adjusted right too.

Spin the wheel while you are turning the star wheel with a brake sthingy. The manual says to adjust them all the way to no wheel movement and then back off until you can make it turn with "minimal" resistance. I have found it is easier to adjust until I get a dragging noise but no drag while I am spinning the wheel. I then push the brake pedal a few times to get the shoes settled and spin the wheel again. Normally, you will have less noise than before you pushed the pedal. At least for the first 2 or 3 times at each wheel. Once you get the dragging noise, you are close. Do that to all 4 wheels and see what kind of pedal highth you get. The pedal is all you are really adjusting from this point on. The tighter the shoes, the higher the pedal. Of course, if you go too far, you will be dragging the brakes and burn them up so don't get too agressive. I was playing with mine the other day and one push with a sthingy at each wheel raised my pedal almost an inch. I was showing my students how just a little bit can be too much.

Re: stoopid brake questions
Post by tacomainoh on Nov 19, 2006, 8:41pm

There you go, from the teacher's mouth LOL . Nice post, Tim.

Re: stoopid brake questions
Post by robsgp on Nov 19, 2006, 8:50pm

I bench bled the mc per the instruction sheet before installing it. It was just 'put the plugs in and use a rod to pump it until the bubbles stop'. I don't recall it saying anything about the fittings on the mc itself. Is there more I need to do with it?

I have a fairly firm pedal. I adjusted each turning the drum by hand until I heard a dragging noise.

Re: stoopid brake questions
Post by jeepistdougiowa on Nov 19, 2006, 9:10pm

Rob, Don't overlook the possibility of the front lines being swelled shut, not too uncommon on 40 year old brake hoses.

Re: stoopid brake questions
Post by dj on Nov 19, 2006, 9:24pm

Where do you the brake sthingy? Would NAPA have one,or is a military issued tool?

Re: stoopid brake questions
Post by tacomainoh on Nov 19, 2006, 9:35pm

? I'm at a loss, and my comprehension skills are normally above average.

Re: stoopid brake questions
Post by robsgp on Nov 19, 2006, 9:44pm

dj, I made mine out a piece of 1/4" rod about 6" long. Beat one end flat and put a little curve in it about 1 - 1.5" from the blade. Works great.

Doug, that's why I was wondering about disconnecting one, just to see. I've used two of the small bottles of fluid so it's going somewhere and I don't have any puddles.

Is there more to bleeding the mc than what I did?

Re: stoopid brake questions
Post by barrman on Nov 20, 2006, 9:05am

The censor on the site converted the word brake s p o o n to sthingy. I was confused as well when I just read it.

Rob,
You did the bench bleeding right it sounds like. Now that it has been over night, you should be able to look under the truck and check out the inside of each tire. If you have a leak at a wheel cylinder, there will be an inverted V of fluid on one or more of the tires.

If no leak is evident, then I would look at the block where the brake switch is that you pluged one outlet after you removed the rear brake line from it. Either that plug or the splice for the new rear line could be leaking air but not fluid. Air molecules are smaller than fluid ones. Air will go through but you won't have a leak of fluid that you can see.

Besides those and the very real possiblilty of bad flexible rubber lines, I would next start thinking about frozen up wheel cylinders.

Re: stoopid brake questions
Post by robsgp on Nov 20, 2006, 8:26pm


Quote: <TABLE class=bordercolor cellSpacing=1 width="90%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%"><TABLE class=quote cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%">There you go, from the teacher's mouth LOL . Nice post, Tim. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

No kidding. That's why I usually print Tim's replies.

I thought maybe sthingy was the proper name for it. Now that you mention it it does look like a narrow s-p-o-o-n.

I put on the new Ford wheel cyliners all around. I haven't put the tires on yet but I did have a leak at the right rear which I think is corrected. I will disconnect one front hose first at the wheel then at the chasis and see what I get. I've seen the nos hoses for about $35 I think. Would braided stainless be better and how do they compare in price?

I never thought of a leak letting air in rather than fluid out.

Re: stoopid brake questions
Post by fsjguy on Nov 20, 2006, 11:22pm

When bleeding brakes, I used the speedbleeders and found that it worked best cracking open one front and one rear AT THE SAME TIME. Otherwise, the pedal wouldn't move much.

Re: stoopid brake questions
Post by robsgp on Nov 26, 2006, 2:40pm

I believe my problem with little fluid to the fronts IS the hoses. Is there modern day equivalent to the old hoses? Advance ordered me in some for a Gladiator which weren't right and NAPA didn't even want to try. Memphis has a set on ebay but gotta assume they're 40 years old too.