mounts for poor man's engine swap?

hi guys i am getting ready to help my brother do a swap in his 715, he already has a complete J 20 w/360 and t18a, i read the page in the FAQ section and it helped alot. I am not able to look at the jeep myself and my bro doesn't exactly know what to look for, so i was looking for some help in what mounts i need to get, J 20 from advance auto for 9.99 or some from a 715 place like memphis equipment? Any other snags that you know of when converting to the 360? that way when we start it we will have the parts we need. It is a good 230 also if anyone is looking for one for a restoratin.

thanks alot eric

Eric the guy to ask on this one is the famous Spicergear.
I heard that he figured out how to put a round peg in a square hole.
Redneck1

E: you are putting a 360 in the 715? for motor mounts you can use any FSJ mounts, just move them. Not sure about the 715 but I believe there are already holes even. In fact, I'm going to look for you, as I have a 725 AND a big old Cherokee. I'll let you know tomorrow. It shouldn't be hard at all.

thanks guys!
Redneck1: i will contact spicergear if he doesn't chime in.
tacoma: i would really appreciate that, and the vote of confidence. any possible snags i might run into? 12 to 24 volt?
again you guys are great, me being new to fsj vehicles i appreciate your info and any experiences you can tell me about. I have an xj and have only really worked/modified the smaller platforms. I am jealous... v-8s

eric

I am using the motor mounts out of my j-3000 into the kaiser, the frames are the same width the last time I measured, they should still be the same. Remove motor mount brackets from you're donor truck and when everything is lined up figure where they need to be and weld them in. You should probably replace the rubber engine mount as cheap insurance. Good luck I'll post on how my converision is going, still looking for the proper bellhousing t-98 to buick 350. Good Luck Fisherman

I found one of these years ago by going to jeep dealer and getting him to put part # for housing on national dealer search. The one I found was growing dust on a shelf in Illinois. While you are there, make sure input shafts are same length. jeep changed them faster than Michael Jackson changes noses. By the time I figured prices for bell housing,custom flywheel ,etc. it was too high.

Actually, you can take the frame perches from the J20 donor, and they almost bolt in. Not in the stock position though. I think I used the back bolts from the original mounts. It is very easy to drill new holes to just bolt in the frame perches, especially with two of them already there. Once you do this, the tranny mount will bolt right up to the cross member, but you will have to notch it out to all for the tcase adaptor. The stock crossmember was for a 2wd tranny, so only has enough clearance for a stub shaft.

There is one big problem with this though, unless you have the J20 with the Dana 300 tcase, the normal dana20 tcases will not last long in the M715 with the extra weight, etc. The Dana 300 really isn't strong enough either, but it could get by for a while depending on your driving style.

ok good so mounts should not be a problem I make them work. i had been thinking about the t-case situation, i will have to investigate what the J 20 has and go from there. Also can i just use the tail shaft from the t98 on the t18 and use the Np200? Or use the t98 and change the input shaft? Which would work better? Did any J20s come with divorce mounted t-cases? thanks for all the replies great info

eric

Hmm, I know there is an article on the T18 vs T98 input shaft issues. I think it is an input shaft swap. But not certain.

I am doing the same thing and I haven't found a clear answer on t89/t18 compatibility. I plan to swap a Jeep t18 granny gear long input shaft into a 2wd ford granny gear t18. With a factory Jeep bellhousing and spacer, it should all line up perfectly like a normal FSJ.

I have yet to see anyone whou has actually done this swap. Anyone here done it and want to share?

All I know on this is that there are:
many different input shaft lengths from 6.5 to 16 inches
2 different spline counts on the tranny end of the shaft, 23 and 27 if I remember right
left and right rotation shafts in those 2 different spline counts
Excedrin required as far as me thinks...
brute4c

The J20 will have a dana 20 Xfer if it's 79 or back. FSJ's never came with a dana 300.

The dana 20 will suffice as a daily driver, mild trail case, but the output shaft is weak and will break sometimes under stress. They make a 32 spline upgrade for mucho dinero. Remeber the infamous bigfoot had a dana 20 transfer case.

You could get an AMC t176 bellhousing and a 2wd ford T18 or NP435 will bolt right up and allow you to keep the np 200 or a divorced 205.

As for the mounts just use the ones from the J20

J20 short beds with a T18 'could' come with a Dana300. I have seen a few of these (Pascal Ray had them).

As for making the dana20 stronger, getting a Scout dana300 (bolts up with the 1" adaptor for hte dana20, already has the shorter and stronger setup. Of course these are not that common, but you also get the better low range as well.

I thought that jeep only used the dana 300 from 80-86 at that time they were using the T18/208 in J20's

who knows with AMC?

Not sure what year(s) it was, but they did get the dana300 in some. And I am pretty sure that it was only with the short bed version of the truck.

hey guys pulled the 360 yesterday, it was the first time i had seen it. It fired right up first lick before we pulled it. i am going to use the J20 motor mounts, they are new ones. We are going to use the T98 i think and change the input shaft. My brother wants to keep the T98 and NP 200, as it is his truck i will do it his way. i would probably do the same thing if it was mine. i thank everyone for their help and now just need to know if there are any threads on the input shaft swap?

thanks

eric

I found a thread yesterday somewhere (I think it was on IFSJA or another Jeep board) where someone swapped parts between the T98 and T18. Apparently the OD of the T98 input shaft is different than the OD of the T18 shaft so you have to use the T18 bearing setup in the T98 case. The OD of the bearing is the same between both trannys just the ID changes to fit the OD of the specific input shaft.

My concern is building a near bolt in setup that looks stock except of course the motor. If I was to just use the Ford 2wd T18 with a Jeep T176 bellhousing, I think the tranny would end up too far forward with the J truck mounts in the normal V8 position. This would leave me fabricating a new crossmember, bending the shifter handle for dash clearance, having the jackshaft lengthened, and cutting another hole in the floor for the new shifter position. On the contrary, if I was to put the Ford 2wd T18 in the stock T98 location, All the above problems would be resolved but it would result in the motor being much closer to the firewall and the J truck mounts would probably not line up to the factory holes (which is no big deal - just drill new ones). The question here is motor to firewall clearance. I think this is definately a concern because the V8 T18 FSJ's all came with the long input shafts and spacers so the tranny shifter is in the right place and the motor will clear the firewall. If it was not necessary then Jeep prolly would not have done it.

I figure with the Jeep T18 long input in the Ford 2wd T18 and the factory Jeep spacer and bellhousing, the tranny can sit in the same position as the T98 and the motor will clear the firewall plus it may line up with the factory holes.

Anyone care to add to this?

I am looking forward to see what you come up with by using the T98. If yours works, I am going to consider using my T98 instead of the Ford 2wd T18. I am in the process of buying a 79 J20 with the 360/T18a/D20 setup that I planned to use for a donor. If I don't have to buy the Ford tranny then that will save me some more money.

I will see if I can find that post on the shaft swap. If I do I will post it here.

Good Luck

Bob

You can put a Ford, or Jeep, T18 in the stock location, but the frame perches for the motor mounts must be moved back some. Basically I moved it back so that the rear frame perch mounting holes in the frame are now going through the front mounting holes on the new FSJ frame perches. So I ended up moving the perches back about 4" or so in total.
This puts the engine relatively close to the firewall, but it looks like about the same distance that the V8 in my cherokee has.
Also, if you bolt in the ford or jeep T18, it lines up the shifter, and everything else, perfectly.
As for swapping the T98 parts with the T18 parts, I think you need the input shaft, bearing retainer and bearing from the T18. And it bolts into the T98. I 'heard' that the bearing retainer has not always fit for people that have done this, but I have ZERO first hand experience with this part. Personally I think I would get a Ford 2wd T18 and bolt it in. Very simple, and they are dirt cheap and almost everywhere in junkyards, etc. (or so I have been told).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hammer

You can put a Ford, or Jeep, T18 in the stock location, but the frame perches for the motor mounts must be moved back some. Basically I moved it back so that the rear frame perch mounting holes in the frame are now going through the front mounting holes on the new FSJ frame perches. So I ended up moving the perches back about 4" or so in total.
This puts the engine relatively close to the firewall, but it looks like about the same distance that the V8 in my cherokee has.
Also, if you bolt in the ford or jeep T18, it lines up the shifter, and everything else, perfectly.

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Which bellhousing did you use? The T176 or the T18 with the spacer and long shaft? Any chance you have a pic of your engine compartment?


I ran across another tidbit of info on the T98 thing. The Jeep bellhousing may not bolt to the tranny as the pattern may be different. The guy who is considering it might want to test fit the Jeep bellhousing on his T98 before he goes too far.

Thanks for the info.

Actually, I have a np435 in mine right now. Which is my issue because it only has the SHORT input shaft. I was planning on running a ranger OD to make up for the short input shaft, but have decided that it really isn't worth the hassle in my case.

http://www.m715.com/images/m715_engine.jpg that is one of my only current pictures with a motor sitting in the engine bay. The transmission isn't bolted up here, so the engine is tilting back more then it should.

Here is a shot of the J10 frame perches in the correct position for a V8.
http://www.m715.com/images/m715_day1_front.jpg

Thanks for the pics. That clears up my concerns.

hi guys
I pulled the tranny and transfer case yesterday, it seems like the bell housings have the same bolt pattern. I measured the center to center spacing og the mounting bolts and it is the same. Is there anything else I need to worry about fitting besides the input shaft swap? I don't have the 230 out of the 715 yet so i couldn't just unbolt the bellhousings and try it. Oh and does any one know where to get a good breakdown of the assembly of the t 18/t98?

thanks for everyones input
eric

Here's some T98 info:

http://www.m715zone.com/manuals/34/chapter10.html

http://www.vernco.com/51wagon/id62.htm

And here's the T18a info:

http://www.offroaders.com/info/tech-...18-rebuild.htm

Also wouldn't this be everything you would need to swap the input shaft?

http://www.partsmikeparts.com/t18_input_kit.htm

Good Luck.

Bob

Took a couple more pictures to show the frame perches for the motor mounts.

http://www.froadin.com/images/m715/d...ch.jpg%3C/a%3E
http://www.froadin.com/images/m715/d...rch_inside.jpg

http://www.froadin.com/images/m715/pass_perch.jpg

http://www.froadin.com/images/m715/p...rch_inside.jpg

Here is the firewall clearance, the engine is tilted back some right now, and this truck has a 2.5" body lift on the cab.
http://www.froadin.com/images/m715/engine_firewall.jpg

Here are the front braces for clearance.
http://www.froadin.com/images/m715/engine_braces.jpg

Will a Ford 2wd T18 bolt up to an AMC V8 bell housing?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rcassettyjr

Here's some T98 info:


Also wouldn't this be everything you would need to swap the input shaft?

http://www.partsmikeparts.com/t18_input_kit.htm

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I have the same question. Could you swap this into our T98, and then bolt it to an AMCV8 bolt housing to an AMCV8?

hi guys thanks for all the information, that shows exaclty what i needed. But the t98 already has the short shaft and needs the long shaft out of the t18 to use with the J20 bellhousing and spacer. So using the partsmike kit would just be changing to a different short shaft.

hammer thanks for the pics so i kinda know what to look for when lining everything up.

thanks eric

fisherman, my truck came with a buick engine in the form of a pile of parts in the bed. the bellhousing bolted to the tranny looks like a chevy. it might be what you want. email me if you know what the part number is and i will get back to you. im either going stock or with a sbc. l.watkins

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Darek

Will a Ford 2wd T18 bolt up to an AMC V8 bell housing?

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Yes it will. You have to use a Jeep T176 bellhousing and an AA conversion pilot bushing that sticks out a little to make up the difference in the Foprd t18 short shaft (6.5").

This is what I am going to do if the T98 input shaft swap doesn't work out.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Darek

I have the same question. Could you swap this into our T98, and then bolt it to an AMCV8 bolt housing to an AMCV8?

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This input shaft would be the correct length if used with the t176 bellhousing. The question at hand is will it all fit together and will the new input shaft mate correctly to the snout on the mainshaft. If it does fit, this would be a cheap easy swap to put the Jeep V8 in front of the factory T98.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by E_in_TN

hi guys thanks for all the information, that shows exaclty what i needed. But the t98 already has the short shaft and needs the long shaft out of the t18 to use with the J20 bellhousing and spacer. So using the partsmike kit would just be changing to a different short shaft.

hammer thanks for the pics so i kinda know what to look for when lining everything up.

thanks eric

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I didn't think you were using the Jeep T18 pieces. I thought you were going the cheap way with the T176 bellhousing and the short shaft.

The FSJ T18's with the long input, spacer, and bellhousing bring big money around here.

Good Luck.

Will the a T-150 bellhousing work instead of a T-176, with the short shaft kit?

I believe so. They are supposed to both work according to Novak. You can check it out on thier website.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rcassettyjr

I believe so. They are supposed to both work according to Novak. You can check it out on thier website.

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Awesome, thanks :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rcassettyjr

I believe so. They are supposed to both work according to Novak. You can check it out on thier website.

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Awesome, thanks :D

o.k. "E" I suppose your in tennesse? I would be interested in the 230. I have a good friend working in the bowling green ky area mon-thurs. Maybe I could get him to pick it up. E-mail me gimpyrobb@yahoo.com Thanx!

Any progress on your swap?