porkchop : Positive wire getting hot and sparks.

Positive wire getting hot and sparks.
Post by porkchop on Oct 30, 2006, 8:11am

About a month ago I got my truck started for the frst time in a long time. This is with the new 292. Well it was doing great when I was working the foot switch. I then had my neighbor come over to help me start it again. He used his hand to push the starter switch, as soon as he did that sparks flew off the battery and the positive cable got so hot it melted . Now when ever I push the switch there are sparks and the positive cable gets so hot it smokes. None of the wires are touching metal. Did he fry the switch by pushing it with his hand? And if so how?

Re: Positive wire getting hot and sparks.
Post by 40grit on Oct 30, 2006, 8:16am

loose connector? I don't see how using his hand versus foot would cause a problem, but sparking is a sign of loose connection and really hot wire is a sign of extreme loading, like a jammed starter...or a short to ground..

Re: Positive wire getting hot and sparks.
Post by porkchop on Oct 30, 2006, 8:22am

I checked all the connections, they are tight. It is strange how there were no problems and then as soon as he used his hand to puch in the starter switch, it sparked and got hot. I thought he might have screwed it up pushing it at an angle or something. Me and electricity are not real good friends so everything to me is a guess.

Re: Positive wire getting hot and sparks.
Post by kwai on Oct 30, 2006, 8:31am

hand or foot doesn't make a difference. Like mark said, must be a loose connection to get sparks. I have an extra foot switch. do you want me to send it to you to try?

Re: Positive wire getting hot and sparks.
Post by porkchop on Oct 30, 2006, 8:37am

Thanks, but I also have an extra. I am just going to disconnect and then reconnect everything again. Clean all the grounds again and see what happens. Won't be able to work on it again until Wednesday or Thursday.

Re: Positive wire getting hot and sparks.
Post by brute4c on Oct 30, 2006, 9:40am

I would make sure there isnt a wire that is chaffed somewhere causing a short...

Are you using the 24 volt alternator yet? Check the small wire under the metal cover plate on the alternator to see if that is cut through....has happened before...

Otherwise....

On the starter switch, one side comes fom the batteries and has the charge wire from the alternator, the other side is the wire to the starter. If you disconnect the wire that comes from the alternator to charge the batteries, all that will be left is the atteries and the starter...

If you can crank then and NOT have the problem, the starter is ok...obviously, if it sparks, the problem is either the starter, the switch, or a bad wire...

If it isnt sparking, let me know and I'll go from there...

Re: Positive wire getting hot and sparks.
Post by porkchop on Oct 30, 2006, 10:10am

Yep I am using the 24 volt alt. And I am using a civie starter. Like I said before. It was working great until he pushed the switch with his hand. I will try and look at it tonight and let you guys know what I see.

Re: Positive wire getting hot and sparks.
Post by brute4c on Oct 30, 2006, 10:26am

Much like the others have said, I dont see what difference pushing it by hand would make...in fact, when I am testitng stuff, I often push mine by hand and have never had a problem....

Another thought...is it all bolted together good and tight or is the starter switch a little loose on he plate? If its loose, then the different angle that a hand might push on the switch could maybe make it move enough that one of the wires on the bottom might just touch something metal...wild guess but a thought...

Re: Positive wire getting hot and sparks.
Post by bluesman2a on Oct 30, 2006, 12:20pm

I don't think anybody has mentioned this, but it makes perfect sense:
Check your grounds. With all those freshly painted parts, chances are you have a series of bad ground connection... Use star washers, and I would put extra ground straps all over...

1) Engine to frame
2) cab to frame
3) fenders to frame
4) front clip to frame

Excerpt from:
http://www.off-road.com/jeep/tech/electrical/gauges/
===========================
Going to Ground


Are your headlights flickering? Do your gauges sometimes work and then not?
Dave Mellow has some great tips about grounding and your Jeep's electrical system.

Remember that you are actually driving three separate Jeeps around: the FRAME; the ENGINE/TRANNY GROUP; and the BODY. The three groups are separated by insulating bushings, rust (lots of that), grease, and just plain looseness.

When your Jeep was new and rust free, the factory thought enough about grounds to have little cables here and there going from the battery to these component groups, but when you and cousin Leroy jerked the engine in '89, you broke the cables and they never got put back.

Do your Jeep a favor, and run dedicated cables to EACH COMPONENT GROUP.

Go from the battery to the starter housing bolt for the ENGINE/TRANNY group; from the battery (or the engine) to the FRAME GROUP; and from the battery (or the engine) to the BODY GROUP.

Work hard to get good clean spots; ground the tub and front end body material separately; be diligent about this, and you will be AMAZED at what a difference it will make (gee, the gas gauge started working'!), and maybe now that measly twelve volts can actually find it's way to the headlights!

Re: Positive wire getting hot and sparks.
Post by dave on Nov 1, 2006, 7:13am

good chance its a shorted switch, my 715 did that and the switch was shorting out internally. I replaced it and no more problem.

Re: Positive wire getting hot and sparks.
Post by porkchop on Nov 1, 2006, 7:24am

That is kinda what I was thinking when I first posted. I was thinking when he pushed it down with his hand it was at an angle and something broke internally. I am going to look over everything this weekend.

Re: Positive wire getting hot and sparks.
Post by binfordm715 on Nov 12, 2006, 7:27pm

What'd it turn out to be?

Re: Positive wire getting hot and sparks.
Post by compexp on Nov 12, 2006, 11:11pm


Quote: <TABLE class=bordercolor cellSpacing=1 width="90%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%"><TABLE class=quote cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%">I don't think anybody has mentioned this, but it makes perfect sense:
Check your grounds. With all those freshly painted parts, chances are you have a series of bad ground connection... Use star washers, and I would put extra ground straps all over...

1) Engine to frame
2) cab to frame
3) fenders to frame
4) front clip to frame

Excerpt from:
http://www.off-road.com/jeep/tech/electrical/gauges/
===========================
Going to Ground


Are your headlights flickering? Do your gauges sometimes work and then not?
Dave Mellow has some great tips about grounding and your Jeep's electrical system.

Remember that you are actually driving three separate Jeeps around: the FRAME; the ENGINE/TRANNY GROUP; and the BODY. The three groups are separated by insulating bushings, rust (lots of that), grease, and just plain looseness.

When your Jeep was new and rust free, the factory thought enough about grounds to have little cables here and there going from the battery to these component groups, but when you and cousin Leroy jerked the engine in '89, you broke the cables and they never got put back.

Do your Jeep a favor, and run dedicated cables to EACH COMPONENT GROUP.

Go from the battery to the starter housing bolt for the ENGINE/TRANNY group; from the battery (or the engine) to the FRAME GROUP; and from the battery (or the engine) to the BODY GROUP.

Work hard to get good clean spots; ground the tub and front end body material separately; be diligent about this, and you will be AMAZED at what a difference it will make (gee, the gas gauge started working'!), and maybe now that measly twelve volts can actually find it's way to the headlights!
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

EXACTLY what bit me last week with my J-truck. Drove it one day, 2 days later, wouldn't even turn over, no dash lights, no nothing. After a couple of days of troubleshooting including battery chargers, new battery, etc, I figured out that my ground to the body was bad. I moved the negative cable to a different spot on the engine, ran another ground wire to the body and wow, everything works again! Plus, my passenger backup light, which HADN'T WORKED IN OVER 10 YEARS, started working again.

Check your grounds buddy!

Re: Positive wire getting hot and sparks.
Post by porkchop on Nov 13, 2006, 7:28am

Haven't played with it. I was hunting.

Re: Positive wire getting hot and sparks.
Post by socal715 on Nov 13, 2006, 3:35pm

Porkchop.. you're talking about the floor ignition switch right? the stock one? I used to start mine almost every single time with my hand (never wanted to hop up into the rig just to warm it up)... never had a problem dude.

Re: Positive wire getting hot and sparks.
Post by jeepistdougiowa on Nov 14, 2006, 8:40am

PC, I've fried switches that way too.

If you hit it at an angle, or too light of a push, and don't get positive contact it acts just like a little arc welder inside. Once the contact points are burnt the switch becomes a point of resistance and can heat up the wires.

I did pull one apart once and clean it up...got a surprising amount of life out of it after that. Year or so IIRC.

Re: Positive wire getting hot and sparks.
Post by porkchop on Nov 14, 2006, 9:27am

Thanks, Doug, I am going to mess with it this weekend and see what happens. I just think he fried the switch when he pushed it at an angle, just like you discribed.

Re: Positive wire getting hot and sparks.
Post by socal715 on Nov 14, 2006, 11:36am

Dang , i must have gotten lucky all the times i started mine that way then.