binfordm715 : Ford 300 swap, pros and cons.....

Ford 300 swap, pros and cons.....
Post by binfordm715 on Jun 26, 2006, 1:01am

I asked Fisherman and Saxon today about possible engine swaps in my future. I had been planning to eventually put in a SBC 350 with the married 465/205 I picked up from Tacoma. But these guys started oohing and ahhing over the Ford 300 straight-6. I guess a few on the Zone have done this swap. I was just poking around for some thoughts on this. Mate to the stock T98? Or a Ford T18? Swap in a divorced t'case of some sort?

So, whaddyathink?

Re: Ford 300 swap, pros and cons.....
Post by compexp on Jun 26, 2006, 6:17am

Luckypabst did that swap with an EFI 300 and (from what I hear) has been very happy with it. Good power and better mileage too.

Re: Ford 300 swap, pros and cons.....
Post by luckypabst on Jun 26, 2006, 10:45am

Yea, carbed first time around, now sporting EFI hooked to a T18.

If you get to it, I can walk you through but here's the basics:
Get the trans in the same place as the stocker using a homemade conversion mount and conversion U-joint then work your way forward. Carefully remove the frame perches from the frame and reattach them where they'll work with the Ford motor mounts with the engine set correctly.

The engine is very long and eliminates a mechanical fan with the radiator in stock location - pusher fan seems to work OK in most cases. Lower radiator hose plumbing is gay and I have what amouints to a sink drain trap to clear the alt. belt. A wider crossflow radiator may be the answer.

EFI engine requires a good sized chunk to be cut from the firewall. Carb engine fits, barely squeezing in beside the factory hot-water heater but you need an offset air cleaner base (this is with Offy intake and 4-barrel carb, should fit better with original Ford 1-barrel).

EFI requires a specific fuel pump. Ford uses a kooky system with a shuttle valve in the pump and you almost have to use the Ford pump, requireing gas tank mods or adapting a Ford gas tank.

Power is nice and the 300 has a fair aftermarket for hop-ups but it's still a rather conservative engine. I think I'm getting about 13 mpg with the EFI and 38" tires. I chose the 300 for its history of longevity and reliability plus the fact that it was in production for just over 30 years and parts are almost as easy to come by (and cheap) as SBC parts but you don't have bellybutton syndrome.

Chris

Re: Ford 300 swap, pros and cons.....
Post by tacomainoh on Jun 26, 2006, 11:09am

ah man! Of the three 465's I've sold, 2 of them have been sold like 3x each, without leaving the building. Not you Timmay! NOT YOU!!!!! besides, I have some good SBC parts I won't be using now, and I was going to make you sweet deals on them. *sigh*

The Ford six is a good reliable motor, nothing to write home about but it does pretty good and holds up. And you know how I hate Fords, so that's high praise! lol That said, I've only seen like... a few in the yards around here. Maybe Utahns just liked v8's more or something.

Re: Ford 300 swap, pros and cons.....
Post by binfordm715 on Jun 26, 2006, 11:23am

I think Chris has fully succeeded in scaring me away from the F*rd 300! Crikey, that's a lot of work! Doesn't seem to be any easier to put in than a SBC--in fact, it seems to be even more trouble. I'll bet it's a good torquey grunter though. But still.....

Fear not, Tac... I was just fishing for ideas. I'm still pretty sure I'll be going SBC.

So....what sort of sweet deals are we talking here, huh?

Re: Ford 300 swap, pros and cons.....
Post by tacomainoh on Jun 26, 2006, 11:34am

I've got some free headers, if they'll fit. Cheap serpentine belt setup. Edelbrock intake, a Quadrajet, etc. That kind of thing. Possibly a Ranger underdrive. we'll figure that all out JUST out of earshot of the ladies.

Re: Ford 300 swap, pros and cons.....
Post by binfordm715 on Jun 26, 2006, 11:43am

"It's okay, Honey.... Taco's giving me free headers (that *might* fit) for spending just a few hundred bucks on this other stuff I might use." Heh, heh, heh....

Oh, and how 'bout finding me a Ranger OVERdrive? I'm plenty low enough as it is!

Re: Ford 300 swap, pros and cons.....
Post by tacomainoh on Jun 26, 2006, 11:47am

oh yeah. I forgot you're keeping the stock axles. A few hundred bucks he says... HA!

Re: Ford 300 swap, pros and cons.....
Post by luckypabst on Jun 26, 2006, 11:57am

My apologies Tim! It's pretty easy actually. I started tearing into my truck mid-day on a Friday and was moving it under its own power by early Sunday afternoon, still needing exhaust, coolant plumbing and final wiring.

Chris

Re: Ford 300 swap, pros and cons.....
Post by tacomainoh on Jun 26, 2006, 11:58am

so that's like, a half an hour in hippie time. It was a good swap, with an excellent writeup.

Re: Ford 300 swap, pros and cons.....
Post by barrman on Jun 26, 2006, 12:13pm

Yes, Chris did a great write up on the swap. I was very impressed with his workmanship and the fit of the engine. 13 mpg is pretty good too.

Re: Ford 300 swap, pros and cons.....
Post by binfordm715 on Jun 26, 2006, 12:15pm

No worries, Chris... Just figured a I6 swap to replace a I6 would have been easier than that! I've been leaning hard toward a SBC 350 swap, but since Fisherman and Saxon were touting the F*rd 300 pretty hard yesterday, I thought I'd open my mind to the possibility.

But there's still firewall clearance issues, plus a pusher-fan, which I'm not too keen on. For what benefit? Probably more torque, but not much more than a SBC, eh? And a bit less hp. Besides, I already have what's reported to be a sweet 465/205 setup just waiting for something to make it spin....

Also, your fabbing powers are significantly greater than mine! Hippie time or no, it would take me quite a bit longer to do what you did in a couple days!

[topic shift] Speaking of your fabbing powers, have you given any thought to a dual-tube roll bar for my bed?

Re: Ford 300 swap, pros and cons.....
Post by luckypabst on Jun 26, 2006, 12:27pm

Yes. I'm "between jobs" so that has me slightly stressed, more so than the average hippie but once I settle down I'm gonna play with some designs for the roll bar.

For the engine swap, it's hard to not recommend a GM swap - big block or small for the same reasons that everyone puts one in everything - it's just too easy and cheap for the return. I'm not keen on adapting to the stock tranny since you can buy a complete parts truck for what the adapter costs if you're diligent.

Re: Ford 300 swap, pros and cons.....
Post by davea on Jun 26, 2006, 3:58pm

If you were going to use a 300 6, what about sourcing one from a 3/4 or 1ton 2wd and scoring the zf 5 spd. as well?

Re: Ford 300 swap, pros and cons.....
Post by fisherman on Jun 26, 2006, 5:31pm

Tim, go in on a tubing bender with me and I'll weld and you can learn how to bend. Wouldn't want to disappoint Tacoma, sbc would be my choice over the 300. I would run either, just seems a bit easier to go sbc since you have some stuff lined up. Do I hear 383? Fisherman

Re: Ford 300 swap, pros and cons.....
Post by saxon on Jun 26, 2006, 5:47pm

Hey Tim I did mention the chev inline, say a 292, all your stuff from Tacoma will work, if you want, but with stock gears and the stock look, might as well retain the stock sound. I think the chev is slightly shorter, might be able to use pull fan. But bottom line is the small block is tried and trued. Dan

Re: Ford 300 swap, pros and cons.....
Post by davea on Jun 26, 2006, 5:55pm

A chevy 250 six fits well and Porky is doing a 292 swap.

Re: Ford 300 swap, pros and cons.....
Post by treepusher on Jun 26, 2006, 6:10pm

I had a chev 250 I-6 in the truck, way underpowered. For the weight of the truck, I would think the chev 350 as the minimum. I had a ford van work truck with the 300 I-6. Very torquey but still not like a higher revving SBC.

Re: Ford 300 swap, pros and cons.....
Post by luckypabst on Jun 26, 2006, 6:48pm

There ya go - I try to keep my 300 confined to 3K on the freeway. It'll pull happily to 4K+ but it ain't healthy with the notorious inline stroke.

With the GM deal, you can set up for a 350 and when the mood hits, just drop in a 454 or a 292 without much drama.

Re: Ford 300 swap, pros and cons.....
Post by pistolnut on Jun 26, 2006, 8:40pm

I've never done the swap, but I do have some experience with the 300. I had a '76 F-100 with that engine and it was bulletproof. Torquey but decent mileage. I swapped one into my truck from a junkyard (long story, I swapped out a good motor) that came from a UPS truck. It had a different cam, manual choke on the carb, and no emissions crapola. That engine had a bottom end forever, especially with the stock 3 on the tree. I think the 300 totally rocks--good economy, reliable, bulletproof. Having said that, I'm going SBC in my project truck. I hate Chevys; in my experience they don't last. I always have issues with valve seals. I've owned several and never been completely happy. I'm going that route because I have one, parts are very easily available, hop up parts are available, and they are pretty easy to work on. Also, they bolt pretty easily to the 3053A-heh heh heh.

Re: Ford 300 swap, pros and cons.....
Post by k8icu on Jun 26, 2006, 9:48pm

I was going to say isn't porky doing a 292 straight cheby swap....anyone know how's thats going?

I think the AMC 6 is a great motor. You know the one they used in the gremlin and still making in variation in jeeps today.

Re: Ford 300 swap, pros and cons.....
Post by grantshire on Jun 27, 2006, 7:31am

Okay, after reading all this about 6 cylinders I have to ask.

What's wrong with the AMC 4.2? I have had several over the years in many different Jeeps. They have great torque, last forever, and are easy to work on. There are also a ton of after market stuff for them as well. Bolt a H.O. 4.0 head on it (worth about 40 hp or more) and a 4 barrel and it will out perform most stock V8's. All without losing the AMC 4.2 low-end torque.

I am currently building one of these for my Scrambler. A friend has a couple of them ( CJ7 & CJ8) with a T176's. One has a weber 2 barrel and the other a Clifford with a Holley 4 barrel. Both will slam you back in the seat on acceleration, burn rubber shifting gears (3.73's & 33x12.50's and 3.54's & 35x12.50's) but still have the low end torque to rock crawl.

The only reason one of these isn't going in my M715 is I want to tow my car carrier with mine.

Re: Ford 300 swap, pros and cons.....
Post by binfordm715 on Jun 27, 2006, 9:06am

I would suspect most of the problem with the 258 is the Carter BBD on them! I like mine. I just have to rebuild that carb more often is all.

Re: Ford 300 swap, pros and cons.....
Post by kwai on Jun 27, 2006, 10:50am

Throw the carter away and get a weber or weber clone. More reliable and more power.

Re: Ford 300 swap, pros and cons.....
Post by porkchop on Jun 27, 2006, 12:12pm


Quote: <TABLE class=bordercolor cellSpacing=1 width="90%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%"><TABLE class=quote cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%">I was going to say isn't porky doing a 292 straight cheby swap....anyone know how's thats going?
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Yep I am in the process of getting it done. I would have been done already had it not been for a slight error on my part.

To get it in the truck there is a little work that needs to be done to get the mounts right since the passenger mount is more forward than the drivers. So it is not as straight forward as the SBC. I was able to make a mount from the engine so I did not have to move the stock frame mounts.

My son helped me get the tranny back in this weekend and hopefully I can start bolting more to it over the next couple of weeks.

Re: Ford 300 swap, pros and cons.....
Post by k8icu on Jun 27, 2006, 8:37pm


Quote: <TABLE class=bordercolor cellSpacing=1 width="90%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%"><TABLE class=quote cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%">
What's wrong with the AMC 4.2? I have had several over the years in many different Jeeps. They have great torque, last forever, and are easy to work on. There are also a ton of after market stuff for them as well. Bolt a H.O. 4.0 head on it (worth about 40 hp or more) and a 4 barrel and it will out perform most stock V8's. All without losing the AMC 4.2 low-end torque.

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

That's the motor I'm talking about! Great motor and runs for ever! Any reason not to use one in a 715?