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Anyone happen to know what the spline count is on our front and rear axles, both inners and outers? Thinking of having new shafts made to keep the stock look but stronger shafts. I haven't talked to them yet but have read that Dutchman is a good brand. Anyone running there parts?
Front is 30 spline at the spider gears and 21 spline at the driving flange (hub) end.
Rear is 23 spline.
I am reposting a set of emails from an author of a book on Dana/Spicer axles and myself...might help:
Quote:
> Since you have some shafts, perhaps I could impose upon you to take some measurements. There would be no useful numbers on the joint itself. If I had measurements of the u-joint, I could ID them from that. These are best done with a set of vernier calipers, but if you have a finely graduated ruler, it could probably get me close enough to determine which u-joint. Here are the measurements I need.
1) Measure the u-joint cap diameter as closely as you can.
2) Measure the distance from cap to cap (directly across) as closely as you can.
3)If you happen to have a u-joint apart, measure the diameter of the u-joint trunnion.
Also, if you have time and the vernier calipers, could you measure a couple of other things on the axle shafts?
1) Does the inner shaft taper down to the 30-spline section, or is it fairly uniform in size. If it tapers, please measure the thicker part of the shaft (below that really thick part right below the yoke).
(reply)
The inner shaft is 1.31 inch...that was verified by several members in the past. It is 30 spline. There is no taper other than the fairly quick reduction from the yoke.
(/reply)
2) Measure the outer axle diameter inside (at the bottom of) the splines.
This is the minor spline diameter and this will help me verify the number I have for 21 spline shafts (assuming it's 21 spline, that is.
(reply)
Outer end number of splines=21
Diameter of outer shaft at outside of splines=1 23/64....1.359375 This
is the diameter of the splines themselves...they are wider than the shaft they are on.
Diameter of outer shaft away from splines 1 1/4 inch exactly...1.25. This is the diameter of the shaft between the joint yoke and the splines, no taper.
On the joint question...here are the measures I have:
Snap Ring Dimension aka outside of snap ring groove to outside of opposite snap ring groove: 3 inches even
Diameter of cap inside of snap ring 1 3/8...1.375 Outside of the yoke the cap has a tapered edge that seems to measure 1/32 of an inch smaller then the 1 3/8...dont know if that means something.
cap to cap, outside: 4 11/64...4.171875
Ujoint body, the large rough center part:: 2 inch even
Machined surface between bearing cap and rough finish center body: half way between 9/64 and 10/64 by eye....19/128ths best guess...0.1484375
Cap Length, end to end: 15/16ths inch
2 inch body + 2- 9.5/64th (19/64) sections between body and caps + 2-15/16ths (120/64) caps = 4 11/64(/reply)
His Reply to all that:
I could redo some of those original measures now that I have a dial caliper...Quote:
These measurements sinched the deal and I know what is what now. Thanks so much!
It's a very odd combination of parts. The inner axle is about the size of a common Dana 44 of today, though bigger than the Dana 44 of the era in which the axle was built (most D44s of that era were 19 spline). The outer shaft is the same as was used in the Dana 70 axles of that era. The U-joint measures out to be a beefy 1480 series u-joint, most likely a 5-88x Spicer. This is a common joint used in closed knuckle Dana 70s to the mid 1970s and similar to the 5-332x size used in the open knuckle Dana 60 fronts used from
the late '70s until today.
Internally, the M-715 axle is similar to the Dana 60s use the the front axles of some high GVW Ford F-250s and F-350s in the '74-76 Ford, though the Fords had much smaller u-joints and smaller outer shafts. In '77, the Dana 60 fronts went to the more familiar and much more beefy 1.5-inch, 35-spline inner axle and 1.31-inch, 30-spline outer shaft. The Ford units mentioned earlier are known as the "Wimpy-Sixties" because of their small axle shaft dimensions and small axle u-joints.
The way I see it, the inner axle is the main weakness of the M-715 D60, and I presume that's where they break most often. It might be possible to substitute a more modern 35-spline Dana 60 inner shaft, perhaps a blank axle cut to the right dimension and resplined. You'd have to then install a 35-spline carrier (perhaps a Powr-Lok) or at least 35-spline side gears. Without all the parts laying here to compare, it's hard to say just what could be done, but it's likely there are a number of other "mix-n-match" improvements that could be made internally without changing the exterior look.
And on swapping in the 35 spline axle shafts...it has been done...heres a page on how:
http://www.m715zone.com/vb/view.php?pg=35_spline
Thanks Jon.
The guy who wrote that technical article on changing to 35 spline shafts, is he the only one who has done this?
Mike Green is the only one I know of who has.
Dutchman is right here in stumptown. I have been there and purchased dana 44 alloy FF shafts from them. My first run on them was on the rubicon running backwards. (the trail not the jeep lol). Coming up out of Rubicon springs is a moderate grade with HUGE rocks which levels out at Buck Island lake. 50 feet from the top I got hung up in some rocks. Apparently my Passenger rear was the only tire that had any traction because when I tried to get moving again I shattered my axle shaft in two pieces at the diff splines. Sounded like a rifle shot. So no power steering and three wheel drive. I almost rolled several times trying to climb stuff at full left steering lock. The next morn I could barely hold up a coffee cup I was so sore. Try 15 miles in rocks with a power box with no assist. Nice... That was a night I will always cherish. We HAD to blaze through as Chrysler was coming through the next day. One of our guys rolled on walker hill about 10PM 3 miles from camp. I have killer video of the recovery.
So back on track here. I took the shafts in and they said they never warranty anything under 35 spline. The guys tone left a little to be desired. I have not been back. I'd go take a picture but we all know what twisted splines and a shear looks like. The drivers side was also twisted a bit.
I now run Warn 230,000 PSI rear shafts (also local) and have not had any problems at all.
I think they are way better than DM.
While you most likely be just fine with Dutchman I would definitely shop around. Try Moser and all the others. I did run moser shafts till warn stole them. Thats how I got my warn shafts. The moser shafts took a good beating and didn't complain. Warn folks just didn't want them out there and traded me across. I was very lucky.
So call around for sure. Use Dutchman as a last resort. IMHO
Good input Kaiser
Thanks for the warning. I just talked to them and the warranty is still on 35 spline only. I haven't checked around for others yet. Colhart which one did you get, domestic or import (assuming he meant steel manufacture)? Were you running big tires for your 44's?
Sorry I meant that fot kaiserjeep.