Tornado block info

[pavel3]

Gentlemen: civilian Willys owner Pavel here. Over at WillysTech, a number of Tornado engine enthusiasts are asking questions about similarities between the military and civilian versions of Tornado engine blocks. There is also the question of where the blocks for military engines were cast. Perhaps down in Argentina? Here is one current post about where blocks after 1965 came from:
"I have never seen anything on it that was definitive, just talk. I would
think the casting info on the blocks would give us a good hint. Back then
I'm not sure the military could out source a key component like the block to
another country. Can any of you Tornado military owners give us the casting information on both sides of your blocks?"

Does anyone have information on this interesting question?
Thank you
Pavel up north

[brute4c]

The civilian 230 was built in Toledo Ohio for the civilian engines from 1962, late, till 1965. The militry engine was also done by Jeep in Toledo from 1966, late, until 1968, late.

The Argentine version was built by IKA down there and started life similiar to the us built civilian engine and morphed into a radically different design that differed greaty from the head gasket up from any US built version.

The US military contracts went to the lowest bidder...buying the engines from Argentina and importing would not have been the cheapest way to do it...

[randyscycle]

I have heard the rumor that the Military Tornado was made in Argentina as well.

The Tornado was sold to IKA (Industrias Kaiser Argentina) and produced there into the early 80's in various forms for passenger cars. There were some upgrades to the carburetion and I think the displacement was upped slightly as well.

The Tornado wasn't used after 1965 or 66, not sure which, in anything Jeep produced in the US, but was resurrected in the M-715 for the military contract.

In my opinion, it seemed like a step backward, and may have very well been an outsourced engine, but that again is just my opinion with no factual basis. I just figure firing up the forges for a run of outdated, unused engines when better things were afoot made little sense, other than a cheap supplier may have been available in IKA.....

[brute4c]

I just checked 2 motors I have in the shop...drivers side numbers are off one and passenger side, engine id boss, are off the other.

Drivers side, rear of block...there is a line with a 6 digit number then a few spaces, then 3 letters...below the 6 digit number is a boss with a single letter, under the 3 letters is a boss with a letter and 2 digits...as follows:

946069 CWS
F C88


On the passenger side is an engine ID boss with:

230 M2 10 04 7.5

We know the 230 is cubic inch and the 7.5 is compression ratio. I could have sworn I have a document that says the M is for military and the 10 04 part has to do with the date...but I cant find a source to onfirm that at present.

Hope that does it.

[brute4c]

Jeep actually had many of the changes from the civvy US engine to the military one slated to go into the civvy engine but due to poor sales and the 232/258 series having less problems, they didnt pursue the improved version of the civvy 230 engne and went right into the military one.

Remember, the first prototype of the M715 with the mil type engine was finished in 1965 and the contract for the M715/G890 series trucks was awarded in 1966 and production began to the point where, in January 1967, there were completed M715's coming off the line...they didnt just start tooling up in January, they were built and being delivered by then. The pic of the 230 in the project manager manual is a mil engine...and that book was circulated in 1966, so it was printed in 65 or 66.

That soon after civvy production ended, or possibly overlapping the end of the civvy production obviously supports the US built version.

[Duane]

I know the civilian motor had more main bearings than the military motor, so the crank and block are different, but what were the other differences in the motor?

Duane

1967 m715 FD brush truck

[brute4c]

The civvy and mil engines built in the US and the eary ones built in Argentina ALL have 4 main bearings. When the Argentine version went to a 6 port intake manifold arund 1971 they also moved to 7 main bearings.

I have a Jeep manual on the civvy motors and have torn one all the way down...the rods and pistons will interchange, though some civvy motorshad 8.5:1 compression...the cranks dont interchange as the mil engine has a different diameter pilot bushing and an added seal at the front for the mil fording applications...a "water excluder" seal it is called in the book.

[brute4c]

Same:
rockers, valves, valve seals, cam, cam deck, valve cover, rods, oil pans, timing chain and gears, oil pump, exhaust manifold, 1 barrel intake, 7.5:1 pistons

Different:
crank, rear main seal, head, block, timing cover, water pump, pilot bushing

Not exactly the same but will interchange:
starter...12 volt versus 24 volt, 2 barrel intake and carb, 8.5:1 pistons, distributors


Fuel pumps came in 2 styles...a dual action unit with both a fuel pump and a vacuum pump, all the military ones are this way and some of the civilian ones, and there is a single action type with no vacuum pump...civilian only. These will interchange with each other but one would either lose or pick up a vacuum pump, depending on which way the swap was going.


I think I got the big stuff...anything I forgot?

[rboltz]

I have a rear main set that I was going to install as soon as my body and paint is finished. The set I bought was listed for the '715 but the seller said will also fit the FSJ 230. What is the difference in the seal set? I hope mine is correct but now I am suspect. I hate to remove it and find I don't have the proper one.

[brute4c]

Funny that rear main seal....

There are 2 different ones and actually I have seen only 1 in the mil engines but 2 in the civvy ones.

The right one for the mil engine is at least twice the size of the civvy one in cross section. The civvy one that DOESNT fit the mil motor is smaller than a standard pencil in cross section, not by much but...the other that fits some civvy and all mil engines is certainly larger than a pencil in cross section.