hummer103 : What Trailer to Pull a M715?

[PseudoZone]

Re: What Trailer to Pull a M715?
Post by robertcowan on Oct 22, 2006, 5:59pm

OH AND YOU KNOW YOU NEVER MAKE A LOOP IN A CHAIN LIKE THE GUY DID ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE REAR OF THAT DUCE RIGHT ?? LOOK HOW ITS FREE TO MOVE ...

[Beast]

Re: What Trailer to Pull a M715?
Post by beast on Oct 23, 2006, 12:03pm

Simple math what holds more weight, something pulling in a straight line, or something on an angle! Like I stated, I like to use the rear bindings to hold back the weight of the vehicle. I my not worried about the rear of the vehicle sliding around on the trailer,because the tension of the bindings keeps it pulled down. Remember, I'm trailering my 715 on a 20' car hauling trailer, so the lenght of the rear bindings is only about 5' total length from the axle to the tiedown cleat. I'm not streaching bindings 20' on a semi trailer.

[PseudoZone]

Re: What Trailer to Pull a M715?
Post by hummer103 on Oct 23, 2006, 1:24pm

Well, thanks lots of input when I was away for just a few days.

Called up a trailer dealer here in CT and had them quote me on this great 20' 12K Goose:
http://www.cttrailers.com/trailers-c...-gooseneck.htm

Was kinda shocked at the $4,800 base price and not in stock

In Stock:
18' w/ 12K for $3859 rated at 9990lb for a non CDL
They also had an 18' and 20' with 8K capacities for $3400 and $3700 which also seemed pretty steep for not that heavy duty of a trailer.
Most of these trailers were 81-83" between the fenders which were removable.
-Just thought Id post some prices for some comparison
Scott

[PseudoZone]

Re: What Trailer to Pull a M715?
Post by aaron871 on Oct 23, 2006, 9:08pm

12K with the fenders cut off......

[PseudoZone]

Re: What Trailer to Pull a M715?
Post by robertcowan on Oct 23, 2006, 10:31pm

AARON, IS THAT A RECIENT PHOTO LOOKS LIKE YOUR GONNA NEED THE M715 VERY SOON.......
BOB

[PseudoZone]

Re: What Trailer to Pull a M715?
Post by pistolnut on Oct 23, 2006, 10:43pm

There is a lot of good info and thoughts here. Here is my .02 worth. I have hauled construction equipment and vehicles on 16' trailers and on 18 wheelers most of my life. I have a scar on my forehead from the failure of a breakover or lever action type binder which broke on me. I don't use them anymore. Ratchet binders are the way to go; they are more expensive, but they won't back off and if they were somehow to fail, they won't take you out with them. I would never use a cable come-a-long to secure any kind of load--ratchet straps are better and safer but when hauling vehicles or equipment chains and ratchet binders are the only way to go in my book. I might consider a chain come-a-long in a pinch, but you have to consider the rated load in respect to what percentage of the load hauled it will be securing.

Bob Cowen is absolutely right about you going to jail over an inadequate tiedown job and an accident. You may think it will be fine, but if the unthinkable happens and something happens because it is determined that you didn't dot all the i's and cross all of the t's you not only go to jail for negligent homicide or manslaughter, you also get your pants sued off by the victim's family. This is serious business folks.

If you are going to tow stuff, spend some time getting familiar with the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Regulations. Even if you are not a commercial vehicle (over 26000# gross(thats gross registered weight, not what you are actually hauling)) you will be held to this standard for tiedowns, cargo securement, etc. Most states don't have regs about this because they use the federal standard. I've quoted some excerpts:

? 393.128 What are the rules for securing automobiles, light trucks and vans?

(a) Applicability. The rules in this section apply to the transportation of automobiles, light trucks, and vans which individually weigh 4,536 kg. (10,000 lb) or less. Vehicles which individually are heavier than 4,536 kg (10,000 lb) must be secured in accordance with the provisions of ? 393.130 of this part.

(b) Securement of automobiles, light trucks, and vans.

(b)(1) Automobiles, light trucks, and vans must be restrained at both the front and rear to prevent lateral, forward, rearward, and vertical movement using a minimum of two tiedowns.

(b)(2) Tiedowns that are designed to be affixed to the structure of the automobile, light truck, or van must use the mounting points on those vehicles that have been specifically designed for that purpose.

(b)(3) Tiedowns that are designed to fit over or around the wheels of an automobile, light truck, or van must provide restraint in the lateral, longitudinal and vertical directions.

(b)(4) Edge protectors are not required for synthetic webbing at points where the webbing comes in contact with the tires.



And 393.108 How is the working load limit of a tiedown determined?

(a) The working load limit (WLL) of a tiedown, associated connector or attachment mechanism is the lowest working load limit of any of its components (including tensioner), or the working load limit of the anchor points to which it is attached, whichever is less.

(b) The working load limits of tiedowns may be determined by using either the tiedown manufacturer's markings or by using the tables in this section. The working load limits listed in the tables are to be used when the tiedown material is not marked by the manufacturer with the working load limit. Tiedown materials which are marked by the manufacturer with working load limits that differ from the tables, shall be considered to have a working load limit equal to the value for which they are marked.

(c) Synthetic cordage (e.g., nylon, polypropylene, polyester) which is not marked or labeled to enable identification of its composition or working load limit shall be considered to have a working load limit equal to that for polypropylene fiber rope.

(d) Welded steel chain which is not marked or labeled to enable identification of its grade or working load limit shall be considered to have a working load limit equal to that for grade 30 proof coil chain.

(e)(1) Wire rope which is not marked by the manufacturer with a working load limit shall be considered to have a working load limit equal to one-fourth of the nominal strength listed in the Wire Rope Users Manual.

(e)(2) Wire which is not marked or labeled to enable identification of its construction type shall be considered to have a working load limit equal to that for 6 x 37, fiber core wire rope.

(f) Manila rope which is not marked by the manufacturer with a working load limit shall be considered to have a working load limit based on its diameter as provided in the tables of working load limits.

(g) Friction mats which are not marked or rated by the manufacturer shall be considered to provide resistance to horizontal movement equal to 50 percent of the weight placed on the mat.

Tables to ? 393.108
[Working Load Limits (WLL), Chain]

See the chart here: http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regul.../fmcsr/393.htm

? 393.108 How is the working load limit of a tiedown determined?

Anyway, my .02 worth. I've seen enough to say don't shortcut this stuff. Read the laws, spend the money and time, and do it right. You will never have to apologize to anyone for doing this right and safely....

[40Grit]

Re: What Trailer to Pull a M715?
Post by 40grit on Oct 24, 2006, 12:32am

Clint, thanks for that link, I figured the law might spell out some required stuff, but here's what i find on the above link for securement devices...I hope I'm missing something...

? 393.102 What are the minimum performance criteria for cargo securement devices and systems?


(a) Performance criteria. Cargo securement devices and systems must be capable of withstanding the following three forces, applied separately:

(a)(1) 0.8 g deceleration in the forward direction;

(a)(2) 0.5 g acceleration in the rearward direction; and

(a)(3) 0.5 g acceleration in a lateral direction.
so, if we assume a m715 weighs 6000#, you need securement( at least 2 tiedowns) capable of withstanding roughly 4500# going forward and 3000# going sideways or backwards...not the toughest standards to live up to..3/8 wire rope is enough for 2 of the standards...

Wire Rope (6 x 37, Fiber Core)

Diameter mm (inches) WLL kg (pounds)

7 (1/4) 640(1,400)

8 (5/16) 950(2,100)

10 (3/8) 1,360(3,000)

11 (7/16) 1,860(4,100)

13 (1/2) 2,400(5,300)


that explains why I get scared when I see how most of the loads on the NAFTA trucks coming up from Mexico are tied down... I think we need stricker standards that this...

[PseudoZone]

Re: What Trailer to Pull a M715?
Post by robertcowan on Oct 24, 2006, 4:04am

I USE 5/16THS G70 TRANSPORT CHAIN AND LEVER BINDERS IN 99% OF MY HAULING NOW. ON MY NEW TRAILER I,AM HAVING TIRE STRAPS MADE HERE LOCALLY THAT WILL ALSO GO OVER THE TOP OF A M715 TIRE AND COME PARTWAY DOWN THE INSIDE AND OUTSIDE FOR ALL 4 TIRES IN ADDITION TO THE CHAINS. IF I GET IN A WRECK I,LL KNOW WHERE EVER THE TRAILER ENDS UP THE M715 WILL BE THERE ALSO EVEN IN A ROLLOVER, SIDE IMPACT AND REAREND HIT. I ALSO USE A 2 5/16" BALL WITH 3/8THS " SAFETY CHAINS X,ED ON THE TOUNGUE.

[Beast]

Re: What Trailer to Pull a M715?
Post by beast on Oct 24, 2006, 11:46am

I don't see anything in those laws requiring that the bindings be crossed. It states that the vehicle must be secured to keep it from lateral movement. Remember this tread was started to talk about what trailers work well for towing a M715, not how to tie one down! I have yet to be critical of how anyone in this tread transports their 715. That's fine if you don't agree with how I secured mine, make a post and go on, there is no need to go on post after post about it! This is my last post in this thread because it has straied so far away from the actual intended question. If BOB wants to continue this then send my a PM about it!

edit by admin to make a bit nicer

[PseudoZone]

Re: What Trailer to Pull a M715?
Post by pistolnut on Oct 24, 2006, 11:31pm

40grit, great observation. The rules were a bit clearer a couple of years ago. The FMCSR book is revised every couple of months these days. The minimum standards aren't much in my opinion either, but they are a guideline and something to build on.

Beast, you're right about the lateral movement. There are few specific rules about how to accomplish this because there are a lot of acceptable methods. I personally would use only two chains (5/16" or 3/8") on an M-715 to tie it down. One on the front pulling forward with the load distributed across the axle or springs and one likewise in the back or possibly across the pintle. On a heavy vehicle like a deuce, I would cross chains to pull from the passenger side of the deuce to the driver's side of the trailer and vice-versa and use at least four chains and binders. No rule about this that I know of but a good general practice; I've had cargo move on me before when I thought I had it tied down pretty good. You live and learn what works best. Talking about suitable trailers pretty naturally leads to tying down IMHO, sorry for any offense.