Starting Gear

[Barrman]

I learned to drive on a 8N tractor. You could start from a stop in any of the 4 forward or 1 reverse gear. It didn't matter to the transmission.

I drove a '66K20 truck in high school when the Mini was broken. The Chevy was normally started from a stop in 2nd gear because 1st didn't really get you anywhere and 3rd was too tall for the engine. Again, the transmission didn't mind. I still have that truck and actually drove it yesterday to move a round bale of hay. The SM420 does just fine 20 some odd years later.

I always started the M715 with the stock drivetrain from 2nd when on the road for the same reasons as posted above.

3 years ago I put the 396/NV4500 in the M715. I found with the 9.00-16 NDT tires it would start from a stop just fine in 3rd. I posted a comment about that here on the Zone and got told to never do that with the NV4500. I was told it was bad for it. I didn't understand, but stopped doing it. When I put the 11.00-16 tires on, my not as smooth as I would like clutch made it hard to do 3rd gear starts from a stop.

I replaced my clutch last week and it is not only really smooth, but light as a feather on my leg. I tried a 3rd gear start from a stop and it eased away with no throttle given like it was meant to be drive this way. I drove to and from practice the other night that way and it made going through stop signs a lot easier.

Does anybody on here now know of a reason I should not be doing this?


I think what might have caused some of the "don't do it" responses then was that I also figured out I could start in 3rd and then shift to 5th skipping 4th. I didn't do it that much and haven't even thought about it until I was writting this thread. But, I still can't figure out why that would be bad either.


Oh, I know on my M35 that I have to start in 1st everytime. but, that is because of the sprag t-case and has nothing to do with the 3053.

[gimpyrobb]

RTFM! No, just kidding Tim. The only thing I could think of is worn syncros. Hope someone more knowledge-Able chimes in.

[brute4c]

As long as you arent lugging the motor...which it surely seems you are not...I dont see a problem.

[amphi]

It could be because, with the NV4500, all gears, except fourth, power is directed from the pilot shaft to the main shaft and then thru some small teeth, in the sliders, down thru the counter shaft and then back up to the main shaft. Fourth gear is direct drive from the input shaft straight thru the main shaft to the tail shaft not using the counter shaft at all.

These little teeth get smaller as you go up in gears.

I think the weak point is these little teeth, with a tapered end (point) just below the syncro on the slider. This picture shows it engaged in third or fourth gear.


This is second gear


This is third gear


This shows both together – second is much larger


This picture shows the size of the teeth for first gear on the left – larger yet


This shows the intire main shaft


Like others have said, you are probably ok but I think this what someone was referring to before.

Hope this helps.

[Barrman]

The pictures do explain how the gears get weaker from 1-3. I was talking about driving around empty. With a load in it or behind, I always use 2nd or even 1st. Plus, with the locker in the back, I am carefull about popping the clutch. A real neck jerker for sure.

[randyscycle]

I don't see much harm empty. Couldn't be much worse than applying the throttle hard with a trailer behind you, or a fully loaded bed when driving up through the gears. You're still applying the engine's power and torque to the rear wheels then too.

The only thing that kills sychronizers seems to be a mis-adjusted clutch, a poor driver, or shifting without depressing the clutch fully. Forks get it from riding around with a hand resting on the shifter constantly, keeping the fork engaged against the selector ring.

I'd think if anything was to suffer it'd be the clutch, but with 5.87 gears, I doubt that would be an issue in the 715.

Oh, and the 8N tractors have somewhere in the neighborhood of a 9.50:1 ratio in the rear differential....

[amphi]

Does anybody on here now know of a reason I should not be doing this?

To answer your question more directly:
No! I don't see a reason you shouldn't be doing this.

As for going from third to fifth:
I don't see a problem with this either -- with a good shift tower.

My reply above was to offer a possible explanation as to why someone might have cautioned you against it. Maybe I didn't make that clear. I apologize if it came across differently.

I'm with ya' man – I know you won't break your truck

I need to make a correction to the first paragraph above as it has an incorrect statement. Power from the input shaft goes directly to the counter shaft rather than to the main shaft as stated. First, second, and third go up from there to the main shaft. Fourth gear is correctly stated above. Fifth gear (overdrive) goes directly from input shaft to the counter shaft and then to the tail shaft.

Hope this clears things up.

[Barrman]

No problem. I am around vehicles everyday and it has been nagging at the back of my head for years now. Thanks for the complete answer with pictures.

[amphi]

Thanks for the reassurance Barrman!

I really struggled getting that post up because imageshack was giving me fits with virus warnings. Had to reboot and start over three times so I lost some of the initial thought.

Think I'll try to host images else ware because it just sucks -- may use my personal web space from my old ISP.

Thanks again
Gary

[gimpyrobb]

I have had good luck wit photo bucket.