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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Auburn, AL
    Posts
    251

    Default Cummins

    What I have is a Cummins 4BT remanned by Recon Diesel Co. (read Cummins). It was pulled from a Frito Lay truck prior to remanufacture. It retains the flywheel and aparatus for the auto transmission. I'm mating this engine to a 3053-A. The bellhousing on the engine and transmission already match up.


    My question is this: Do I need to replace the flywheel or just pull the flywheel and remove the automatic tranny parts (if possible)? Also, I have a dry rear seal - is this correct or do I need a wet rear seal?


    Never run into this problem, so I have no point of reference. If I'm missing something... please feel free to point out my ignorance.

    Cummins Service (2 seperate shops) looked at it and had no solutions. Actually, both said they had never seen this setup on a flywheel. They are a slave to the computer and there is no description for the flywheel - only part numbers.

    Cummins Customer Service is about to recieve my boot in an unpleasant place and in a decidedly unreasonable manner. They have bent over backwards (twice) to not give me a PN for a manual transmission flywheel. They even tried to bluff me with the EPA regulations as one of the reasons not to give me the part number. It's a sorry world....

    Thanks guys,
    Snuffy

  2. #2

    Default

    Well if you are looking for a PN for a manual tranny flywheel for a 4bt. First it is the same mounting as the 6bt, second, there are hundreds of flywheel/clutch combo's for the 4bt/6bt manual tranny's. Light duty/medium duty from early 90's ford, freightliner, etc..etc.. So if you are looking for the exact part#, good luck. I have yet to get it. I have a part number for a 14" flywheel but was told by ATT transmission, (they bought out the spicer/eaton medium duty trans line) that a 14" would not fit due to where the ring gear is placed. I am mating my 6bt to a spicer 3053 as well. i am using the SAE#3 bellhousing and will just use the upgraded size flywheel 13" from a light duty dodge, with a valair 13"clutch. Most any clutch manufacturer can change the input shaft diameter of the clutch to whatever you want.

    So all in all i am just using a 1 ton dodge clutch with the clutch modified to fit the 1.5in/10 Spline shaft. I know a 93 ford f600 with a 5.9 uses a SAE#3 flywheel but i think uses a clutch disk that is 1.75in/10spline. I have talked several hours with valeo, southbend, valair, cummins, and some heavy truck suppliers to get the right set-up. I could just run a c70 clutch set-up, but i am wanting to turn my 12v up quite a bit. And the valair is rated for 500hp/1000tq. AN easy fix for you would be to get an SAE#3 bellhousing, a regular 12in flywheel and clutch from a dodge cummins truck and get the clutch manufacturer to put the 1.5in/10spline set-up for the clutch. The HD pilot bearing for the dodge cummins also have a ID of .750 which is what you want for the spicer 3053 input shaft.

  3. #3

    Default

    There isn't any point in getting upset with the cummins folks. They do their job, and quite honestly, their job description doesn't include helping you put together a mismatch of parts. They don't have any more information than you do, and quite probably, less. Cummins builds engines to a particular customers specifications, and sells them. That's Cummins with a capital "C". Corporate engineers do that, not Hadji behind the parts desk. There are literally hundreds of possible combinations, and if you don't have specific knowledge of something, you aren't going to find it in a parts reference.. All the guy behind the counter has is the CPL# (control parts list) and what parts go on it. You need to check with a medium duty truck shop for that particular conversion. Gun512 is correct in the fact that you should use an SAE 3 or SAE 2 flywheel housing, as the 3053 from a duece already has a bell housing to mate to it.

    What you are trying to do is cool, but it is a puzzle that you have to figure out yourself. Holding some guy responsible because you don't know what you need is pretty much ridiculous in my book. I understand your frustration, but if you want it, gotta pull them britches up a tad and do it yourself.

    Doug

    4btswaps.com is a very good resource for various bits of information as well, but I can't say that I've seen the specific question answered there. Still wouldn't be a bad place to look, ad there are a few swaps over there using SAE type bell housings and transmissions.
    Last edited by dahoyle; September 27th, 2008 at 03:52 PM.

  4. #4

    Default

    I found dozens of set-ups that use a flywheel and clutch set-up that would work for the swap but, they are all either 1.75 or 2.00 in input shafts. That is the big kicker. And the highest rated clutch i found factory with a 1.5input out of a medium duty was something like 500ft lb's. I understand that is in a medium duty truck, but i don't want to take the chance of turning my motor up and smoking a clutch in the first few months.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Georgetown, CA
    Posts
    418

    Default

    As dahoyle ponted out, . .your engineering a special application is out of the range of the parts guy's realm. Most "parts guy's" are just that, . . .parts guys, . .they know their way around the manual, computer, etc. and can find that part (once they figure out the part number) wherever it is on the planet. However, they often times are NOT mechanics, and certainly not engineers. What you need is one of those seasoned mechanics that works for an independent shop, whose hands are permanently the color of diesel soot,. . the independent shop guy will have the advantage in this type of situation because they are often approached with the similar question, . . "I have this, ..and this. ..and this. . .can you make it work?",, . .and because they have been in the trenches, . .there is a good chance they can point you in the right direction. . .

  6. #6

    Default

    Autoworld in Montana does quite a bit of cummins conversions, you might give them a call. They have a website. There is a place back east in one of the Carolina's, M-Series Rebuild that repowers a lot of military vehicles, they have a website too, I think he would probably know. I think his name is Charles Talbert. Look up a website for a Dodge M-37 by garbee, he has lots of info on 4bt swaps. There is also a website for 4bt conversions that you might be able to get that info on. Hope this helps and good luck.

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