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Thread: Power Steering Questions / Which box & pump to use?

  1. #31
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Lone Pine, CA
    Posts
    451

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    My box is from a '78 Cherokee Chief, pump is early 80's Econoline Saginaw "canned ham" unit with some random outlet fitting to convert to the earlier flared hoses. I assume the box to be original to the Chero but I have no way to confirm this. My steering is very fast - too fast for this truck. If I had the choice, I'd go for the slow ratio steering box for sure. Steering also is very light with little "feel" which is why I dislike power steering and kept the manual box for as long as I did.

    These Saginaw boxes also had two different piston diameters, um - large and small (go figure). I don't know the actual difference but it's not much. It does matter if you buy a reubild kit.

    Here's a few comparo-pics of the pitman arm from ebay ($37.50 in TX - Leo Porter? Not certain) vs. the stock '78 Cherokee arm. Ebay arm is generally clean and black, Chero arm is in use and dirty. Hole to hole is the same, Ebay arm has a little drop, Chero arm is near level. M715 arm by comparison has "lift".

    Chris




  2. #32
    Join Date
    Sep 1998
    Location
    North Central Wisconsin
    Posts
    11,520

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    Nice pics Chris!! Thanks for takig the time and adding all the info!

    I wonder if the Ford one I listed is the same or different in length...

  3. #33

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    I found this in an article from Hemmings someplace online.



    "Few mechanical parts have enjoyed a production life longer than the Saginaw power steering gearbox. First introduced in the early Sixties on full-size Oldsmobiles, the Saginaw gearbox has gone through many internal updates; however, it remained virtually the same and was the basis for General Motors power steering systems until the advent of rack and pinion steering. In some GM trucks, this unit is still used today. Saginaw gearboxes were also used in AMCs, Jeeps, Internationals and several Ford models; however, the Ford units will not interchange with any of the other applications.
    The Saginaw gearbox is a rotary-valve type unit using recirculating ball bearings. They are referred to as recirculated ball-type because they use the same ball bearings on both the worm gear and the sector gear to reduce friction within the housing. You will often see this gearbox referred to as an "800" or "605" unit. The only major difference between these two units is how the pitman shaft is held into the unit. An 800 unit has a four-bolt cover on the top of the unit (the end of the shaft opposite the pitman arm spline). The 605 units use a single snap ring that holds a round cover into the top of the housing. GM also used two gearboxes, depending on the weight and size of the model. Station wagons, full-size cars and large front-wheel-drive cars used a heavy-duty gearbox usually identified by GM part number 5687962. These units had a 3.5-inch piston diameter, and the pitman shaft will turn anywhere from 3.5 to four turns between fully locked left and fully locked right. These units were rated at a 17.5:1 steering ratio. Mid-size and smaller models used a steering box tagged 5691676, and these units used a 3-inch piston. The travel on the smaller-piston unit was three to 3.5 turns lock to lock. The mid-size gearboxes were rated at a 14.4:1 steering ratio. Both the 3.5-inch and the 3-inch-bore gearboxes have a .813-inch input shaft diameter, and most will have 31 splines on the input shaft. You can substitute between both of these units. Aside from the mounting bolt pattern (most are 4-bolt mount but there are two different three-bolt mounts, as well), these units are all interchangeable. The more responsive 14.4:1 ratio gearboxes replaced the earlier 17.5:1 ratio boxes in most models by 1973. This is a good thing to remember when you begin your search for a replacement.

    You can locate one of the basic Saginaw "800" series power steering boxes in one of these vehicles:
    1964-'76 AMC
    1961-'76 Cadillac, including
    1963-'76 Eldorado
    1964-'76 Buick and Pontiac full-size cars and Riviera
    1973-'76 Regal
    1975-'76 Skyhawk, Seville, Monza and Starfire
    1965-'76 Chevrolet full-size cars
    1967-'76 Camaro and 1968-'76 Nova
    1964-'76 Chevelle, Cutlass, GTO, Grand Prix, Lemans, Ventura and Tempest
    1971-'76 Vega and 1975 Pontiac Astre
    1960-'76 Oldsmobile full-size cars including 1966-'76 Tornado
    1971-'76 Jeep Cherokee, Wagoneer, Gladiator and J-series pickups
    1972-'75 International Scout and Traveler
    Many enthusiasts have also found that an easy way to upgrade the handling on your car is to convert to a Saginaw quick-ratio power-steering box. These were original equipment on some mid-size models, and they can be transplanted into most other GM vehicles, if you can locate one from your local pick-a-part. These gearboxes will improve the steering and handling for your car with a more responsive lower gear ratio and also reduce the steering wheel travel to 2.25 to three turns.
    The 1969-'76 Camaros as well as 1964-'76 Chevelles, Malibus and Monte Carlos also used an optional quick ratio 12.7:1 unit, which will interchange with the higher ratio gearboxes. These are very popular units because they are an easy bolt-in performance conversion. The 1982-'96 S-10 pickups used a 14.0:1 ratio "605" series gearbox, which will interchange into earlier vehicles with some modification. Another option is to use late-model G or F Body units. They were original equipment on 1983-'88 Monte Carlo, 1983-'84 Hurst Olds, 1985-'87 Olds 442, and 1984-'87 Buick Grand National or T-Type. They are also 12.7:1 units and a little more difficult to find, but can be identified by a "YA" marking on the end cap (opposite where the steering column attaches) or by searching for cars with the F41 or Z65 suspension package. All of the Monte Carlo SS cars had these options. These units will reduce steering wheel revolutions from lock to lock down to 2.25 to 2.75 turns.
    An important thing to remember when interchanging Saginaw gearboxes is to use your original pitman arm and idler arm if possible, to maintain the proper steering geometry. Different body styles have different length idler and pitman arms; for example, the F body arms are longer than those in an A or G body and could cause alignment and front-end clearance problems if used in different body styles. When interchanging between earlier and later GM gearboxes, you will notice the power steering hose fittings are not the same. Later fittings are metric and incorporate an O-ring, whereas all Sixties and most early Seventies units used the standard inverted-flare fittings. Auto parts stores sell standard thread to metric thread adapters in several different sizes that allow you to use your original hoses with the later-design metric gearboxes. The rag joint or steering gear coupler may also have to be changed. These can be obtained with the gearbox when being pulled from the donor car, or new ones are still available from the GM dealerships. The coupler off a 1977-and-up Chevy pickup (GM part number 7826542) works just fine to adapt the early-style steering shaft to the later model gearbox. Rag joints are also available from Lares Corporation, which can assist you with interchangeability questions and the purchase of freshly remanufactured power steering components as well.

    Lares Corporation 1-800-334-5749 "

    *********************************************
    Cardone 276537 should be a “76” box. There are variations of that part number depending on where you look. I say should because that's the pictures shown online and they have been consistent.

  4. #34

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    Chris...is yours a three bolt mount? I'm just trying to check against the parts houses info.

    They list a '78 Cherokee as three bolt mount and 3-1/8 to 4 turns lock to lock.

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Lone Pine, CA
    Posts
    451

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    4-bolt with the added point on the 715 frame.

    Chris

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    new pal, indiana
    Posts
    38

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    well done response hetzer, that is the most complete description of ps boxes i have ever seen.

  7. #37

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    Ditto on that. Learned a lot there. I wonder where they are measuring the input shafts. I have found many with the sizes I mention. And the rag joints did not inter change with out force. I'm sure it can be done but is it right? Really good info there and THANKS for posting it Hetzer!
    Liz, covid, murdered 10/19/21

  8. #38

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    The older gen of Dodge Durango also used a large piston saginaw box with three bolt holes. A lot of people are using them as upgrade on the TJ's. Another thought is to contact PSC steering and have them make you a custom box they are great to deal with and the prodict is top notch. Two things I wouldn't skimp on steering and brakes.

  9. #39

    Default

    I suppose I could drill and tap this three bolt box for a cylinder arrangement.
    Those kits are fairly reasonable and it should take stress off the frame and box. Wouldn't be cheaper than just using a four bolt box, but should work out just as strong. Perhaps stronger. Ehh, we'll see.

    Did I mention I have little tolerance for rooting through junkyards anymore?

    BTW, I like PSCs stuff. I'm just trying to avoid having a $10k truck that's really worth $4k.

  10. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hetzer View Post
    BTW, I like PSCs stuff. I'm just trying to avoid having a $10k truck that's really worth $4k.
    It's a jeep thang...
    Liz, covid, murdered 10/19/21

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