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Thread: robertcowan : any 6bt cummins in a m715

  1. #11

    Default kwai :

    Re: any 6bt cummins in a m715
    Post by kwai on Jun 2, 2006, 7:20pm

    I think someone else mentioned that you would need 3 inches of additional body lift for the 6bt oil pan to clear the axle. Might be able to mod the oil pan to get away with less lift.

  2. #12

    Default robertcowan :

    Re: any 6bt cummins in a m715
    Post by robertcowan on Jun 2, 2006, 8:07pm

    well first off why would you need an air to air cooler when a factory after cooler in the intake manifold works and does perfect ? also why cut the firewall when there is more than enough room ? lastly the oil pan isnt a problem when you can get a center sump, rear and front sump are the same you just turn the oil pan around. all thats needed is the correct oil pickup for the application. always remember its a army truck !!! keep it simple like the rst of the truck. just my opinion. bob

  3. #13

    Default tacomainoh :

    Re: any 6bt cummins in a m715
    Post by tacomainoh on Jun 2, 2006, 11:48pm

    Bob, maybe you should ask Cummins why they thought it prudent to build an air-to-air intercooler, since their own aftercooler wasn't adequate. Maybe the new guys engineered one of those setups? If the aftercooler was 'perfect', I doubt they'd have gone through the trouble of designing an INTERCOOLER, and making poor Dodge design around it for their new trucks.
    As for the oil pan, a front or center sump will hit the front axle, and it's unclear whether an unmodified rear sump will hit or not. I know it is going to be close on my K30, and that's got all kinds of room for everything else. Unless there is a rear sump with a shorter reservoir, there will probably be problems. That's a 14+ quart system. Lotta oil.

    There is not enough room for a radiator and an intercooler in an unmodified FSJ front end, at leas not using factory intercooler hose locations.

  4. #14

    Default robertcowan :

    Re: any 6bt cummins in a m715
    Post by robertcowan on Jun 3, 2006, 4:07pm

    all the air to air coolers was designed for the common rail very hi-hp 6btaa,s not the manuel fuel pump models mostly used in m/v trucks. its like installing a 390 hp 454 bbc and a 572 bbc engine. think of what your building and its intended use. you gonna pull a 48ft. gooseneck loaded to the max at 75mph for hours on end or are you gonna go drive around town and go 4 wheelin . a diesel only gets hot when worked hard, thats when you get boost off the turbo.i dont run air to air coolers with a 10% increase in fuel pressure in the 4 bt,s i build and the egt temps never go over 950 degrees which is well in normal range. 1150 starts to melt pistons 1200 does it for sure . keep it simple is my motto. less to deal with , less is far better unless you got deep pockets.
    bob

  5. #15

    Default tacomainoh :

    Re: any 6bt cummins in a m715
    Post by tacomainoh on Jun 4, 2006, 3:11pm

    Bob, intercoolers have been around since before the new common rail stuff. Come on.

    You get boost off the turbo as soon as it starts spinning. WTH??

  6. #16

    Default robertcowan :

    Re: any 6bt cummins in a m715
    Post by robertcowan on Jun 4, 2006, 8:59pm

    until you work a turbo you get very little boost. get a boost gauge and check it. i,ve had em in all my semi,s i know.
    bob

  7. #17

    Default elwenil :

    Re: any 6bt cummins in a m715
    Post by elwenil on Jun 4, 2006, 11:18pm

    I think you are being misled by the boost gauge. Unless it shows both vacuum and boost, you don't see the full range of vacuum vs pressure. For example, the gauge on my SRT-4 reads about 20 inches? of vacuum but as soon as I blip the throttle it will spool up the turbo and begin building pressure which the gauge reads simply as less vacuum. Granted it will never reach full boost of about 15 PSI unless there is a load on the engine but the turbo is always boosting a little if the air flow is more than what you have at idle. My SRT is not a diesel of course, but I have driven more than enough of the Dodge CTDs at work to know they operate similar. Very little lag and intake pressure is almost instantly changing with a blip of the throttle. Most gauges only show positive boost, over the engine's normal vacuum, but it's still there acting on the intake pressure even before a gauge will read 1 PSI.

  8. #18

    Default tacomainoh :

    Re: any 6bt cummins in a m715
    Post by tacomainoh on Jun 4, 2006, 11:30pm

    thank you Lanty. I take back all those mean things I said about you LOL

  9. #19
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    Default barrman :

    Re: any 6bt cummins in a m715
    Post by barrman on Jun 5, 2006, 8:07am

    A manifold pressure gauge is the ideal. Piston engined airplanes have them. Theoretically, a normally asperated engine will develop no more manifold pressure than the barometric pressure it is operating in. 29.92"hg is the standard. Bell and Alison after the war made a P-39 develop 105"hg to run at the Cleveland Air Races. They blew up several. Indy Cars are limited to 48"hg. I "think" I read somewhere that the Cummins 6bt is limited to 35"hg max. But, it will do that 35"hg at sea level and driving over the Loveland Pass. The rule of thumb is that for every 1,000 feet above sea level, you loose 1 inch of manifold vacuum. So, if you got a perfect 29.92" at sea level, you would be around 15"hg going over the Pass. That is 1/2 power at best.

    That is the theory behind why a turbo diesel is so great. As we all know, heat is what really reduces the efficiency when the turbo is called on to work hard. An air to air cooler that cools the air between the turbo and the engine gets the engine working closer to the theoretical goal it should be at. A big "intercooler" mounted in front of the radiator will cool the air better than a smaller "aftercooler" mounted on the intake manifold. Both do a good job, (the same basic job) one just does it better. But, as it has been pointed out. An intercooler needs a lot of space at the front of the truck. An aftercooler is more space friendly and in some applications a lot better than nothing.

    Almost all vehicles made since 1996 are called OBD II vehicles. That means On Board Diagnostic generation II. All OBD II vehicles have IAT (Inlet Air Temperature) Sensors and O2 sensors. A diesel really needs an EGT (Exhaust Gas Temperature) gauge too. The EGT is the limiting factor in how much you can turn up a diesel. Products offered by Banks, Edge and Bully Dog all have a way of plugging into the computer and displaying the IAT and EGT if you add the probe. The cooler the IAT, the cooler the EGT. A bigger cooler for the after turbo air is the only way to keep down the EGT while the turbo is working hard. So, either put in a big cooler or don't lean on the turbo if you want the engine to last.

  10. #20
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    Sep 1998
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    Default brute4c :

    Re: any 6bt cummins in a m715
    Post by brute4c on Jun 5, 2006, 9:39am

    Just because I love numbers...I figured one time when we were in Colorado that at the top of Mt Evans, 14,270 feet (the highest paved road in North America), we were in air that had been reduced in pressure by 3/8ths that of the standard atmospheric pressure at sea level at 59 degrees which is hte 29.92" mercury Barrman stated...

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