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Old June 1st, 2009, 08:04 PM
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Default Theory Question: EMP (Amphi, Kwai...)

I was just thinking today as I was reinstalling my plug wires for the 4th time.
I was remembering back to my Army NBC training and was thinking about the effects of post-nuclear EMP and how it may effect this truck.

My question is would the encapsulated coil and distributor, shielded plug wires and plugs offer any protection against the effects of EMP?

Some of you engineer types feel free to chime in, I'd like to get some educated input here.

No offense to any hillbilly's or dummards, you guys feel free to pipe up too.
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Old June 1st, 2009, 09:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fng View Post
My question is would the encapsulated coil and distributor, shielded plug wires and plugs offer any protection against the effects of EMP?
Maybe some small amount but not much, because there is no real way to insulated magnetic lines of force produced by a magnet, electricity, or EMP.

These lines can be bent by another magnet or piece of metal in close proximity. They can also be concentrated in metals like iron. This is what makes a magnet stick to metal. However, if the force is strong enough it will saturate the iron and the remaining lines of force will leak out or pass right through as if the metal is not there.

If there was a way to insulate these lines of force, one could design and build a permeate magnet motor that ran on magnets only without electricity.

My best guess on this subject.
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Old June 1st, 2009, 09:43 PM
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Old June 2nd, 2009, 04:10 AM
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Wow. Now that's an answer. Thanks.
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Old June 2nd, 2009, 07:00 AM
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According to Mr. Positive it is not an electro magnetic pulse. He insist it is an EMD for discharge that could last up to 30 minutes per explosive event. He lectured me at length about this last summer when we were swapping some parts. He claimed that a standard military sealed distributor would be fine as long as the truck was not running at the time of the EMD. He also mentioned that the points could get fried with the truck off so I should carry a spare set of points, cap, rotor, condensor and coil. Basically, the same things that would go wrong if the truck was running.

Tracy, if you out in the middle of nowhere Arkansas are subject to EMP/EMD, I think there will be bigger things than starting the M715 to worry about.
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Old June 2nd, 2009, 07:31 AM
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I would say a stock M715 ignition system, that is points, condensor, and a coil, is completely immune to any kind of EMP of any magnitude that wouldn't be melting metal randomly...

EMPs are primarily an issue with solid-state electronics, using low current, high-impedance signals, and sensitive PN junctions, FET gate insulators, etc. In order to damage a points ignition, the pulse would have to induce so much current that it physically melted the wires in the ignition coil or punched through the high-voltage insulation, and if you're this close to ground zero, you're toast anyway.

The shielding around the stock ignition does, however, serve some useful purposes - but in the opposite direction. It prevents noise from your ignition from being radiated, which prevents interference with radio and communications gear, prevents its detection by enemy forces, etc.

--Randy
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Old June 2nd, 2009, 08:20 AM
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From my understanding.... It wouldn't really matter much what it did to the ignition system. An EMP will 'cook' magnets (read - demagnitize) and batteries (connected to the frame), so no generator and batteries. The truck would be dead in the water either way.

Not sure how protected the mil generators are....

Snuffy

Last edited by Snuffy; June 2nd, 2009 at 08:22 AM. Reason: Clarification
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Old June 2nd, 2009, 08:56 AM
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Not sure if it helps but this is from the -20 manual...I relize it isnt about outward stuff coming in but it does describe the system other than the basic ignition parts and such:

Section VII. RADIO INTERFERENCE SUPPRESSION

2-18. General.

Radio interference suppression is the elimination or minimization of electrical disturbances that interfere with radio reception or disclose the vehicle location to sensitive electrical detectors. It is important that all vehicles, whether equipped with radios or not, be properly suppressed to prevent interference with radio reception in neighboring vehicles.

2-19. Interference Suppression Components.

a. General. The radio interference suppression system does not include any primary suppression components specifically used for this purpose. All
components of the cargo truck and ambulance that are capable of emitting radio frequency signals are equipped either with in-line (bypass) capacitors and/or are grounded to the vehicle chassis.
b. Spark Plugs. The resistor type spark plugs incorporate an extended steel base which shields the ceramic insulator and provides attachment facilities for the shielded spark plug cables.
c. Spark Plug Cables. Fully shielded spark plug cables are used in conjunction with the shielded resistor spark plugs. The metallic conductor is multiple stranded and double insulated. A spring jacket surrounds the cable insulation and provides rigidity to the cables in higher temperatures. The electromagnetic shielding is a double layer of close weave copper braiding. The shielding allows full flexibility of the spring jacket and still provides continuous shielding. The copper braiding is soldered to formed brass tubing at the ends of the cable. The center conductor is terminated at both ends by a copper alloy spring; is sealed by a rubber sleeve with a shoulder that fits inside the spark plug shield; and expands to a tight fit when the cable connector is tightened.
d. Distributor and Ignition Coil. The distributor and ignition coil are of unit construction within a continuous casted aluminum housing. The housing has provisions for connecting the spark plug cables
as described above. The housing is grounded to the cast iron engine block by the mounting bolt.

2-20. Replacement of Suppression Components.

Refer to the pertinent maintenance paragraphs containing removal and installation instructions for components.

2-21. Testing of Radio Interference Suppression Components.

Since there are no primary suppression components in the system, testing is accomplished in conjunction with electrical troubleshooting procedures.
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Old June 2nd, 2009, 09:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snuffy View Post
From my understanding.... It wouldn't really matter much what it did to the ignition system. An EMP will 'cook' magnets (read - demagnitize) and batteries (connected to the frame), so no generator and batteries. The truck would be dead in the water either way.

Not sure how protected the mil generators are....

Snuffy
I think people are greatly overestimating the effects of an EMP... frying a battery, for example, is essentially impossible. By the time you managed to apply enough of an electromagnetic field to the jeep to cook the battery, the whole jeep would already be on fire...

The alternator, however, is the most EMP-sensitive part of a stock M715, due to its use of solid-state electronics, both the regulator circuit and the silicon diode output bridge. It is, in fact, the only part on a stock one likely to be damaged by an EMP. So in case of EMP, better start looking for an old generator (no diodes), or make sure to keep the lights off so the batteries last as long as possible.

--Randy
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Old June 2nd, 2009, 09:15 AM
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Tim, that answer was great!
There has been alot of growing concern by the local "like-minded" individuals about the nuke reactor down in central Arkansas (real close to Wrecker and Combat 32). What if it got terrorized, taken out by bombs...etc. That's what really got me to thinking. I would bet the bigger concern would be fallout or contamination rather than EMP or whatnot.
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